Submarine Yacht Establishment

Submarine Yacht Establishment - The relationship between a submarine yacht owner and the establishment may not be easy at the beginning.

RWatson:

...Modern maritime nations offer port facilities on a commercial basis, and insists on financial guarantees from boat owners.
I cant even store a 26 foot trailer sailer in a yacht club marina without 5 million dollars of third party insurance. How are you going to get this behemoth into any civilized berthing facility without the requisite insurance cover ? It sure isnt the type of craft you can pull in on a secluded beach.

All the Coastguards from Chili to Mexico are very averse to "risky" new ventures, (odd bits of "legislation" notwithstanding). From the rescue costs, to damage to civilian craft - you are going to be flat out convincing them to let you go for a test cruise, let alone make any substantial voyage.

The Navy won't be inclined to let an untried and massive vessel out amongst their expensive toys without some kind of financial guarantees.

Even moving the thing to the water is going to be a major administrative exercise in liability cover, and you are going to need some big funds to cover the exercise. The crane or transport company will not be keen pay for the personell cover involved.

Sure, everyone is very friendly and supportive while you are tooling around in a big shed out of everyones way, and perhaps paying some bills.

When it comes to really getting out in the water, you will find that there are very few officilas who are going to stick their professional careers on the line no matter how innovative and interesting your project is.

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Hello Watson,

...In Management you always have a "posible problems to come up" list, and i have to give you that your "problem list" is quite complete, very acertive, well informed, and in fact it is almost exactly the one i am handling myself.

This "problems to come up list" is normally corresponded by a "strategies to resolve upcomming problems" list.

It seems to me that here is the point where we differ most - you conclude that the issues are imposible to overcome - i think they can be resolved - in fact i am good on track to do so.

To speak with Gorbatschov there are always things that are "part of the problem" and things that are "part of the solution".

I agree completly with you that insurances and standardisation in shipbuilding, is one of the core issues for ANY "experimental" or "extraordinary" boat.

The less "standard conform" your boat is the more "friction potential" with the "established sistem" your project naturally has.

The "political problem" is, that if you implement "complete coverage of standards" you kill innovation.

- Or to to say it catchy - the poison is in the DOSE.

So a wise shipbuilding politics will accnowledge the need and right of existance for both tendencies standardisation and innovation, control, and freedom, and will be focused to applie the right dose in the right segment. Being container shipment and passenger transport the most controlled segments - while keeping private yachting the freest one.

So the real interesting question is: is there enough "space of manouver" to do this - and this depends widley on the country you are talking about, the acting persons and their "interpretation" of the laws, their "perception" of the involved risks, etc...

There was a "political tendency" to whipe out catamarans by applying a "capsize insurance" on catamaran yachts that would cover "supposed rescue efforts" ...

Being successful this initative would have limited yachts to "monohulls" for ever - i am glad that a much more moderate set of ideas finally implemented itself and we can enyoy catamarans on large scale today. What finally has changed was the "interpretation" and "perception" of capsize-ability and risk - seeing all those catamaran yachts touring around without "capsizing on a dayly base" took the wind out of the sails of the "prohibit that nonsense right away" - fans.

So you see such "fluffy" things like "interpretation" and "perception" can finally make the difference. Therefore, for me any negative "interpretation" of "submergeability in private hands" is part of the problem - any positive discussion "part of the solution".

I do not agree that Navy and Coast Guard are "part of the resistance" i know a lot of nice navy and coast guard officials with a genuine love for the sea, a healty interest to push new frontiers, and they are "part of the solution".

You are surley right that nobody will put his career on line to get obstacles out of my way. So yes, the heavy lifting to get the permits, to build it, to put it into water, to show that this is enjoyable yachting in open ocean with a comfort plus compared to surface yachts, - this is all my task.

But i think you should not only see the forces that are "part of the problem" there are also powerful forces (and people) that really want to see it happen and succeed - i found some allies on that way and i am doing just fine...

On this forum i have heared the words "i hope you succeed" several times. Fact is i already succeeded to apply submarine yachting in practice, to show the feasibility of the concept in a long term real world trial - and i am not allone in this.

What i now need to do is "publish the concept" establish a "movement of dedicated submarine yachties" rise financial, political, technical, support, and muscle to overcome the resistance of the establishment.

I see Ian's boat as an important tool to do so.

....If you check my concept you will find that it is consistently designed to avoid exactly the friction areas you are pointing out.

I do not need berthing and docking - the hull can stay afloat - all is designed for afloat repair - with a "estimated general lifetime of 200 years" and yes, the twin keel would even allow to pull it in on a beach in extreme cases. It is basicly designed to stay out of "yacht club marina" and be anchored in a open bay so will not be plagued by the 5 million dollars insurance your 26 foot trailer sailer is subject to.

I am serious (and tested this out in practice) when i say that a 200ton submarine yacht will have lower maintainance cost than the trailer sailer you mention.

In fact the decision not to use steel was in part motivated by the strong dependance of steel hulls on drydocks, shipyards, gritblasting, and service facilities due to the constant need of maintainance.

It is my intention to cut the friction points with a "standard and insurance driven ship/boat support sistem " that has a natural tendency to "resist and penalize" experimental boats as you mention in a very smart way.

Cheers,

Wil

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concretesubmarine.com

See the complete discussion submarine yachts and establishment on the following forums...

Discussion 1 boatdesign.net "Submarine Yacht Project" / Concrete submarine discussion on psubs.org / Why not more concete submarines psubs.org / Discussion 2 boatdesign.net "Concrete submarine" / Discussion 3 boatdesign.net "Submarine Project"

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